1. Hugh Cipher Hugh Cipher United States says:

    Jazz is far more complex than classical & it wasn't just mimicked like your Hispanic examples did with classical Blacks created this art form from scratch. As for Nobel prize winners we have 16 in 6 categories & we are working on that scientific one. As for why we don't have one yet I point to my previous comment alluding to the current & past several centuries of economic & educational discrimination.  Now how about you answer my question about the low average Hispanic iQ. Do you believe thats in your genes or is there someother dynamic?

    • Javier Perez Javier Perez Bolivia says:

      Jazz is "far more complex than classical"? You have to be very ignorant of music to make such claim.

      There are TONS of classically trained musicians who amuse jazz fans in concerts, despite they mainly play classical.

      Examples? you can check the german pianist Alexander schimpf as a small example, or violinists Joshua Bell, Roy Sonne.

      However, how often do you see jazz musicians being able to play top notch classical music with such level of proficiency?

      About hispanics low iq, as I told you, the low average (better than blacks, despite living in worse conditions than blacks, as they are illegals for a start) doesn't avoid hispanics winning  SCIENTIFIC nobel prizes, or being found within top notch mathematicians.

      For instance, the mayans had math and/or astronomy MORE ADVANCED THAN THE EUROPEANS OF THEIR TIME (same amazing stuff found with some amazonic tribes less known than mayans), while the black NEVER were able to show that level in math. Jaime Escalante showed the path to raise up for illegal latins, when trained, they beat up whites in national scores. Too bad he got expelled because he was a problem for unions.

      • Hugh Cipher Hugh Cipher United States says:

        You offer up your opinion as if its fact. The fact is when ever the question is asked "what is the most complex form of music" Jazz is always mentioned as 1st or 2nd. The fact Jazx was created by African Americans points to our innate genius. What form of music has your people created from scratch.  All latin music has African roots. Also the struggles of being a foriegner pales to that of systemic racism.  Africans live in a world where even a person from a group with a mean IQ of 88 seeks to belittle our acomplishments. A system that teaches IQ is an inherent biological factor to explain away the results foul cards it has intentionally dealt to a people. A racist system that teaches this hierarchy is biological & has brain washed other victims of its inequality into agreeing they are inherently less intelligent than Whites by comforting them with the false hood they are inherently smarter than Blacks. This is foolishness.

        • Javier Perez Javier Perez Bolivia says:

          Alexander Schimpf, Josh Bell or other classical musicians capable of play jazz at world-class level are not opinions, they are facts.

          You still fail to show me pure jazz musicians who can play world-class level of proficiency the most complex classical music, and play it in the cathedrals of classical music.

          I showed you examples, you fail to show me your example.

          The other part is a very long technical discussion, who could be far bigger than the article, here, and would demand you to be a conservatoire graduate to  understand it. But you can understand the players comparison in a more easy way.

          • Hugh Cipher Hugh Cipher United States says:

            Just for shits and giggles though
            Keith Jarrett, Benny Goodman, Dave Brubeck, Chick Corea, Joachim Kuhn, Ron Carter, Richie Beirach, Eddie Daniels, Bud Shank, Wynton Marsalis (who won Grammy's in classical and Jazz in the same year),Branford Marsalis -i'll stop hear but it clear you have avery limited knowledge of music history or you would not have made the rediculous assumption jazz artist have never played classical nor have played it well. Also the fcat is Jazz was an art form created by Afro- Americans. Hispanics have created no original form of music as Latin music has stromg African roots & even so only Jazz is compared to classical in its complexity. You are argueing Hispanics  can play a European form of music  better than  Africans can play a highly complex form of music they have created from scratch. This is false. The fact you were unaware of the myriad of Jazz musicians who have played classical well enough to sell millions of records and win Grammies for both in the same year leads me to assume the “very big long technical discussion” you allude to would be full of the same holes and lacking the same depth of knowledge you’ve just displayed –poorly played Javier…poorly played

            • Javier Perez Javier Perez Bolivia says:

              Marsalis, Beirach or Kuhn and most of the ones who jazz players who can play classical  were CLASICALLY TRAINED, even since childhood.

              If they are clasically trained musicians who switch to jazz, of course they will still be able to play classical, when it was their primary training, ins't it?

              That's why I talked about PURE CLASSICAL MUSICIANS, ones with only jazz training, whithout being clasically trained, being able to play classical, like what you see when clasical musicians can grab jazz and play it beautifully.

              BTW, the only case I remember of a musician with zero clasical training being able to play classical (and jazz also) was PACO DE LUCIA, and he was a flamenco guitarist and composer, not a jazz musician.

    • Javier Perez Javier Perez Bolivia says:

      Forgot another example CHESS.

      Brainy ethnic groups like whites or jews shine at Chess, yet hispanics had one world champion, Jose Raul Capablanca.

      Today, there are top notch (above 2600 elo) hispanic Chess players like Julio Granda, Lenier Dominguez, Lazaro Bruzon, Fernando Peralta, Rafael Leitao, etc. While on the black side, the black gold standard is Maurice Ashley, elo 2446 (a VERY long way from the 2600 elite).

      Isn't this another clear example of what I'm talking about?

      • Hugh Cipher Hugh Cipher United States says:

        All of the chess gm's youve quoted are from Europe or Latin American countries with very good chess programs. Maurice Ashley is from Jamaica one of the worlds poorest countries who never had a gm play there until Maurice Ashley did. You continually point to examples of people who come from superior enviroments.

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