1. Hugh Cipher Hugh Cipher United States says:

    This part of the problem
    People are trying to quantify something that is an aspect of the mind ie: mental capabilities with out using the science that is a study of the mind ie: psychology

    People are trying to use so called hard sciences(this is what you probably were trying to say when you said “real” science) such as biology and statistics to quantify an aspect of mental function.
    This is idiotic.
    This is like trying to guess the speed of light by using the science of geology. Using the wrong discipline will never result in a right answer. All genetics and stats can do is tell you the results in this matter not the causation. We are looking for the causation. No scientific study has been able to point to any gene that correlates with lower IQ that also distributed amongst one racial groups as opposed to another For example: the gene that produces an enzyme called deiodonase-2 is not more prevalent in Blacks, Latinos or other low scoring groups.  
    Again this is NOT a matter of physical prowess. It’s a matter of MENTAL capability.  
    In my opinion in the matter of IQ scores If your not using any data from psycho-social studies your not looking for the real answer. By just using data from so called hard science the researchers are just looking for information that justifies the answer they want

    • Javier Perez Javier Perez Bolivia says:

      What part of "I'm not talking about IQ, but about SCIENTIFIC NOBEL LAUREATES or winners of FIELDS MEDAL."  do you still fail to understand?

      What about Physics or Chemistry Nobel laureates? About Fields medal laufreates?

      How can 'environment' be the only excuse, when you can find laureates from very poor backgrounds and that suffered harsh conditions or even persecutions?

      Of the MILLIONS of middle-class or wealthy black kids in past decades, failed to produce ONE scientific Nobel laureate or Fields medalist, and you still say environment is the only possible cause?

      And you never answered, why would nature have to be 'fair'?

      If nature is unfair (predators kill other animals, naturally gifted athletes that can become superstars with proper training, people more handsome than others from birth), why would top-notch mental abstraction capability would be the exception? whern will you explain it?

      • Hugh Cipher Hugh Cipher United States says:

        I never said nature should be fair. In fact the fact Africa has two of the biggest deserts in the world, no domestic crops or animals native to its habitat & probably the harshest living conditions in the world & Eurasia & the Middle East are where domestic crops & animals are native to, fertile river areas along with the best climatic zones to live in is an unfair aspect of nature
        Again im stating your arguments using natural atheletic prowess to state mental prowess is inherited & displayed in the same manner is incorrect. No one is saying genes play no part in academic achievement or that environment is the sole factor
        What I am saying their is no genetic component that causes Blacks or minorities such as Hispanics to score lower on IQ test
        what I am saying is that the extreme racist oppressive environment is the primary reason for Black under achievement & this negative environment is far more extreme & damaging than you realize or admit. Blacks have been barred from participating in education from the lowest to the highest levels. Hispanics especially non Mexicans have been far more accepted by White society than Blacks ever have. When Sidney Potier played in a movie where he dated a White woman it was banned in the Southern US but Ricky Ricardo a Hispanic immigrants was & starred as the husband of Lucille Ball on nnational tv for years. Blacks would lie & say they were Latin to get jobs in the 1960's & prior. This is the depth of the discrimination Blacks have & still suffer. Below is a link describing some of the issues Black scientist & mathematicians have suffered.

        www.pbs.org/.../barriers-black-scientists.html

        http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/madgreatest.html

        • Javier Perez Javier Perez Bolivia says:

          And I never denied environment play its part, but you can't deny the genetic role in EVERYTHING regarding human characteristics.

          There have been millions and millions of kids from wealthy familes, yet such mass fail to produce ONE single scientific Nobel laureate or ONE field medalist or ONE chess prodigy in the 2600 area. How come you would still insist to blame only the enviroenment when you find cases like the ones I mentioned before, some of them coming from rural villages and living in extreme poverty in childhood?
          Again, explain this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Cori

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